#10 Unscripted with Lizze Gordon, A Journey in Entertainment

Today, we're hanging out with Lizze Gordon, sharing stories from her journey through acting to writing and directing.  We'll laugh about the importance of keeping it real in your creative hustle and the struggle of juggling passion projects with paying the bills. From dishing on the ins and outs of vlogging to spilling tea on networking in the biz, we cover it all. We also chat about Lizze's adventures in horror and comedy, and how she's rocking the balancing act of work and mom life. So grab a snack, kick back, and get ready for some real talk about podcasting, staying sober, and kicking self-doubt to the curb!

Lizze Insta: lizze.gordon
Lizze Youtube: @LizzeGordonVlogs

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Podcast Host

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Embarrassment of Podcasting
• 1:19 Pregnancy and Balancing Work
• 8:56 The Challenges of Pursuing a Creative Career
• 21:20 The Role of IMDb and Other Platforms in the Industry
• 26:33 Entering the Film Industry and Gaining Recognition
• 27:00 Writing in the Horror Genre and Exploring Comedy Scripts
• 30:25 The Pros and Cons of Vlogging and Podcasting
• 37:27 The Power of Sobriety in the Creative Process
• 43:27 Overcoming Hurdles and Prioritizing Mental Health

Transcript

Shay (00:05.374)
Hi.

Lizze (00:07.822)
do I say hi?

Shay (00:09.982)
Yeah, hi.

Lizze (00:11.822)
I thought you were gonna do a little intro first. Can you give me this big speech? I'm gonna do a little intro and then you can start talking and you just go, hi.

Shay (00:15.934)
Nah.

Shay (00:22.43)
I do like the intro later, because it's just like, I still have secondhand embarrassment over doing podcasts. Like, they embarrass me. I'm embarrassed by myself.

Lizze (00:31.182)
I get it. Whenever someone's like, what do you do? I'm like, I have a podcast.

Shay (00:35.806)
Yeah, yeah, I shrivel a little bit.

Lizze (00:37.774)
Yeah, when I started doing it, I called my family. I was like, just so you know, I'm vlogging and podcasting now. As if I was explaining, I was selling organs on the black market.

Shay (00:48.926)
I know, right? People look at you like you are doing something bad. It's not cool. So I just, I'm still accepting it. How are you? You're Pregante, yes?

Lizze (00:53.198)
It's not cool.

Lizze (00:59.393)
I am. Is that the actual word for it? I have tested positive for pregnancy. Yeah. For a lot of women, it's great. And for some other women, it's just not.

Shay (01:03.87)
huh, yeah.

wow. What's that like?

Shay (01:12.83)
Shay (01:17.278)
which one are you?

Lizze (01:19.759)
I think it's really cool and really fun and it's a lot more rewarding when I can feel him move. But other than that, like I am, I am well, and I'm like in my second trimester, like well into it. And everyone's like, you sleep great. You get this boost of energy and power. And I'm like, not sleeping, no boost of energy or power. I can basically work for 30 minutes a day and I am not well, but I'm.

Shay (01:25.278)
Awwww.

Lizze (01:48.75)
I am enjoying it as a reset relax button. Because I generally go, go, go. I'm always doing five million things. So it's really nice to be like, I'm on the couch.

Shay (01:53.31)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Shay (01:59.326)
I know, yeah.

Lizze (02:06.798)
with no other option. Yeah. How are you?

Shay (02:08.318)
Yep, yep, lovely, lovely. I'm good. When did we last see each other? Maybe eight years ago. Maybe seven, I'll say seven. No, I left.

Lizze (02:18.702)
No, that's not.

Lizze (02:23.214)
way less than that. You came and saw me at the jewelry store.

Shay (02:29.086)
hell was that? Well that was like seven years ago!

Lizze (02:29.678)
And we went punch.

Okay, maybe it was.

Shay (02:38.414)
my god, wait, now I hate, so sorry, but now your sound is being weird again. No, it just sounds really staticky now. Maybe it switched to...

Lizze (02:44.11)
Why is it good enough.

Lizze (02:49.006)
What?

There's no way, because they're closed. The box is closed.

Shay (02:54.686)
Okay, well now it sounds good when you just talk. Frighten.

Lizze (02:58.096)
Okay, then I'll hold it here.

Shay (03:01.246)
I'm so sorry. This is such a pain in the ass.

Lizze (03:03.568)
We're having technical difficulties. I got. I, I pod Air Max. What are these? I Max headphones.

Shay (03:10.558)
Mm -hmm. are those apple? Hmm. They beans. Well, all right. That's fine. What was I going to say? Yeah, so it's been like seven years since I've been in LA. And how have you been doing since then? Obviously.

Lizze (03:14.032)
Yeah.

and I can't figure them out to save my life.

Lizze (03:33.424)
Do people even know who you're talking to? Like, should I be like, Hi, I'm Lizzie Gordon?

Shay (03:39.422)
I have like a whole intro about you're a writer, you're a director, podcast host, you know, you do it all. So how can you explain someone that does everything?

Lizze (03:42.656)
Yeah.

Lizze (03:50.129)
Right, right, right, right, right. I just wanted to make sure they knew who this voice was. Yeah.

Shay (03:53.374)
It is, yes, they will know your voice. And in the last eight years, you've kind of switched from doing more acting to now more writing and doing your own things. Obviously the podcasting, the SIP official.

Lizze (04:06.961)
Yeah, so Shayla and I actually met in an acting class and a Meisner acting class with Bill Alderson, who is a nutball. Who I genuinely love and wish. The absolute best to and I hope that part of his absolute best is some therapy.

Shay (04:13.502)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (04:18.302)
Yeah.

Shay (04:29.726)
I could not agree more. I mean, that was a rough, I mean, I don't, I can't even remember why I took that class or how I even got to that class. I remember being very intimidated by you, by everybody, him especially. He would be like so harsh. And then I was like, but this is acting. I need to be bullied.

Lizze (04:48.304)
Yeah.

Lizze (04:52.433)
Well, right. I took the class because he was a teacher like a student teacher under Sandy Meisner at the New York Playhouse. And Bill was really close friends with like a bunch of actors that I really admire and love and he taught like Allison Janney and he and John Voight are really close and I.

Shay (05:03.294)
Right, yep, yep.

Shay (05:18.27)
Lizze (05:20.018)
I really honestly love the Meisner technique and I do really love Bill, but then it's times where like, do you remember one of our classmates brought in an activity? So if you don't know Meisner, Meisner is like, you have an activity, you have an emotional place that you're coming from. It's heavily led by your specific impulses after you do an emotional warmup. And it's very alive, which I really like.

Shay (05:23.774)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (05:46.834)
So one of the exercises we did was you bring an activity into class and you really do the activity. And one of our peers brought in a rope and decided to make a noose. And Bill straight up said, you better really use that.

Shay (06:00.126)
Yeah, I do remember that and I that's why that class was just every day of something fucking wild It just felt but I learned a lot I learned a lot and I did appreciate that and even if it was tough I really I don't know. I just felt like I needed it

Lizze (06:20.209)
Yeah, I loved it. And I had to leave. But.

Shay (06:21.598)
I mean, you were just already miles ahead though in like your career and your learning than I was. I was still in my undergrad. Like I just didn't know too much yet. So that was a big leap for me and very overwhelming. But I learned so much from you. Like specifically, I remember like, yeah, hanging out with you and just being like, wow, her mind goes at like a hundred miles a minute.

Lizze (06:42.161)
Mm -hmm.

Interesting.

Shay (06:51.326)
and she's thinking about working on something, doing something creative. There's always something we can do better. And I loved that.

Lizze (06:59.683)
well, thanks, Sheila. I do actually, like, I really do believe that. And I think that to this day, like, we can always be working on something. We can always be trying better options and to put our, to put a better foot forward. I will say that the act, like, in order to get acting jobs, I realized nobody was going to give me one. And that's when I started writing. So I wrote roles for myself in

Shay (07:07.134)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (07:18.654)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (07:26.641)
movies that I knew I could get some scumbag producer to make. So I made four ultra low budget horror movies and did that by lying and say I had worked with Eric Roberts. Eric Roberts, if you don't know, is the passer -around patty of ultra low budget non -union purpose. And I had a friend who had worked with him and so I had like some little tidbits of like, you know how he is with his cue cards and those weird shoes he demands to wear and...

Shay (07:30.75)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (07:40.062)
Yeah.

Shay (07:46.046)
Yes he is.

Shay (07:56.19)
my god. Amazing.

Lizze (07:56.305)
He's so pathetic. But I reached out to like 50 producers who had worked with him and I lied and said, I had just worked with him and he told me to reach out to you because I have some IP you might like. Yeah. Well, the problem is like, you think you're building a resume, but that really doesn't matter in this industry. Like if the work is shit, if the movie is...

Shay (08:09.246)
Figure till you make it babes.

Lizze (08:26.833)
Nothing like a fart like a lot of movies that get made these days are farts in the wind. And even if they're $13 million budgets with one A list actor. Nobody might see it and it does not matter. You know, it used to be that you get a guest star role as an actor and my God, now you've got some momentum. Send out your postcards, tell the reps, reach out for generals. You're on the rise and now it's like.

Shay (08:31.326)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (08:51.134)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Lizze (08:55.345)
A fart in the wind, nobody cares.

Shay (08:56.606)
Yeah, literally nothing happened. I was just on the West End in London in a show and I was like, surely the jobs will be flowing. They'll just be reaching out to me now, you know, nothing. They were like, that sucks.

Lizze (09:02.449)
Yeah.

Lizze (09:06.385)
No.

Lizze (09:10.609)
No. But that's why I really liked, so I really, I love acting. I genuinely do. Like in my own time now, I find myself doing Daniel Day -Lewis monologues just because it makes my heart sing. I fuck with that man. My favorite thing to do is scream, my child.

Shay (09:23.294)
That is very specific.

Lizze (09:36.081)
This is my child! That just makes me feel good.

Shay (09:39.806)
Just utter screaming. Hey, it gets out of there. It feels good. That's why I liked Meisner too, is because it felt so, you're in it. You're in it.

Lizze (09:41.905)
All the time.

Lizze (09:47.281)
Yeah. You're in it. I love being in it. But what I love more about writing than I do acting is I don't need anybody to, I don't need anybody. I can sit down, I can take all these voices in my head and I can put them on a page and I can always be working and it's always towards something. So in a world where everything, all of our work is a fart in the wind, I have to take out what,

is like what success means, what a win means. So for me, I have redefined success as I get to do what I love every day. If I get to scream, I have, it's fine. And it brings me joy, I am successful today as an actor. If all I do is write for 30 minutes, I am successful today as a writer.

Shay (10:38.718)
Good.

Shay (10:44.862)
Yeah.

Lizze (10:45.553)
And the really cool thing about both of those activities is if you work on something, generally, you get better at it. So if you're getting better at your craft every day, and if your portfolio is building a little bit every day, then you're putting in those 10 ,000 hours as, is it Malcolm Gladwell or whatever? The tipping point, whatever.

Shay (10:57.374)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (11:10.846)
I don't know, but I know what you're talking about. Yeah.

Lizze (11:14.577)
You're putting in the time to become an expert at your craft, and you have these things to show for it. So when opportunity comes, you're ready. Someone's like, I was thinking about trying to cast this role, but I don't know who to put in it. my God, I actually put myself on tape doing something similar to that for no fucking reason other than the love of the game. Check this out. Or, God, I need a script that's about, that's got these elements. And it's like, that's so funny you would say that.

because I had a mental breakdown last year and eroded it. And nobody asked, but now some of that, so like having those things, instead of dwelling in the disappointment of no one's smelling my fart, I cut my hand around my own ass and guide it up to my nose and huff it like a fine wine. So that's why I've been up to smelling my own farts.

Shay (12:05.118)
Yum. Yes. But then the question is, yeah, but the question then, because I do the same thing, but then what do I do for money? Because that 30 minutes a day is not the thing that's paying me. It brings me all the joy in the world, but I'm poor as shit. So it's like, that's the hard, you know, in between.

Lizze (12:22.225)
Yeah.

Right.

Lizze (12:30.065)
and that's when you put pictures of your feet on the internet.

Shay (12:32.414)
Exactly, which, you know, I would do, but no one wants to see it.

Lizze (12:35.409)
Also a grind though, nothing's not a grind.

Shay (12:38.11)
It's true. It looked like too much work. I was like, I can't do that.

Lizze (12:42.865)
I will say this, like for the longest time I had what I would call a full -time free time job. And I would get jobs at like as a sales girl at stores where there's a computer and if there's not a computer, I bring something to write on and I will do my job to the best of my ability, but it's also my free time. Well, I'm there. I'm working. I'm doing what I want to do. And they don't pay me enough for my mental space. So I.

Shay (12:57.534)
Yes.

Shay (13:02.91)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (13:12.081)
physically in there, I'm doing what I'm told to be doing, but you don't own me. And I am grateful for the ability to pay my rent. And so, you know, that's what vlogging has become for me, which I'm incredibly grateful for because I can do that on my own time. But before that, like I did, I wrote like so many scripts as a sales girl. And I, you know, you came and visited me at that jewelry store. I used to take meetings at the jewelry store.

Shay (13:15.966)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (13:21.342)
Yeah.

Shay (13:41.15)
Yeah, I was just gonna say I remember coming in and you were writing in the middle of writing stuff. That's all I can remember and eating.

Lizze (13:49.393)
You just take whatever job they'll give you, but if you're a creative like us, you pick a job where they don't own your body and your soul. And then even if like, I used to work at James Purse and James Purse was a little bit harder to get away with full -time free time stuff, but I'd go in the stock room and I'd plug in a lecture of one of my favorite writers talking about what they do. And then I'm there and I'm learning while I'm steaming. So no matter what, there's ways to...

Shay (13:55.294)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (14:17.745)
yet to pick and choose your full -time free time job and to make it work. Like even with Lyft and Uber, like Uber eats and all of those things, like it's a grind, but you gotta do it. But you can listen to a podcast in between drives. I dare say you put one ear pod in while you're driving a person. You know, we don't want to talk. Nobody wants to talk anyway. Yeah. But I do think that there's like,

Shay (14:22.302)
I love that. Yeah.

Shay (14:34.366)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (14:41.726)
Yeah, no one wants to talk, so go right ahead.

Lizze (14:47.345)
It's about sort of, I do also think it's harder to find a day job these days, which is crazy. Once you find it, it's just like, do it good enough that they can't fire you and stick it out until you can leave. And always remember that this is not your career. This is not your passion. This is somebody else's passion. And treat your passion the way they treat theirs.

Shay (14:53.406)
Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Shay (15:01.342)
huh.

Shay (15:10.718)
Mm.

Shay (15:14.814)
Yeah, yeah, 100%. How does vlogging fit in with your life now? Do you do it every day? How is it working?

Lizze (15:23.601)
No, I try to make vlogging something I would do anyway. So it's either like I'm cooking and I do it once a week. I post on Tuesdays, but I like if I'm cooking, I'm cooking. If I'm directing a spec commercial, I film directing a spec commercial. But my whole thing is I don't have the finances or the time and energy to do some big grand vlog.

Shay (15:30.366)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (15:52.958)
Right.

Lizze (15:53.553)
But I do have, you know, to make the dinner tonight. And I do have to like, even when I second a deed, a promo shoot for the Transformers movie that came out last year, and I've logged that. And it's just a lot of me eating craft service and hiding behind a dumpster.

Shay (15:59.934)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (16:09.15)
Yeah.

Shay (16:14.142)
Are you finding it like fun though? Are you surprised by vlog? I've never tried vlogging because again it would give me like that secondhand embarrassment. It's the whole thing of me being me on camera. I'm so used to being a character. So now to show you what I do all day I don't know if I could do it.

Lizze (16:34.458)
I think a lot of people have like a vlog mask that they put on like they put on makeup and they curl their hair and yeah, and they use a voice. When I got into vlogging, I had announced that I was going to do it and then had a horrible week. But because I had announced it, I had to do it. And because I had had a horrible week, I didn't have anything in me emotionally to give. And so I was just super honest, like I was fresh out of the gym, unshowered, red faced.

Shay (16:40.798)
It's another character, yeah.

Shay (16:52.19)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (17:04.09)
crying, horrible week. And I just said, listen, I'm in a bad place right now. Let's make some creamy chest and chicken. And, and so it's this, I think it's very similar to acting where the best acting is super authentic. The best writing is super authentic. The best direction is super authentic. And as long as I'm being super honest with my audience and vulnerable and talking about what I'm going through in a way that I'm comfortable sharing, like I've got boundaries.

Shay (17:12.478)
Yeah, yeah.

Lizze (17:33.114)
But authenticity sells more than a polished turd.

Shay (17:39.102)
Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I would love to try it. I might, I'm close, I'm getting close. But did you find it hard to get all those followers or you who already had kind of some friends that did it?

Lizze (17:47.866)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (17:54.381)
I'm very lucky in that I would say a majority of my audience comes from my friends who are wildly successful before me. So I do think there is a secret ingredient to that. You can build your own following, but it takes time and consistency. And I think people have a hard time spending that much time and being that consistent for free.

Shay (18:05.694)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (18:09.886)
Yeah.

Shay (18:22.238)
Yes, yeah, I could see that. It is a lot of work. It's another job that you have to take care of and do your makeup and hair if you want to or, you know, it's just work. And do you do all the editing yourself as well? See, how? How do you learn? Like, what do you, you were already smart, so.

Lizze (18:28.091)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (18:36.89)
Yeah.

Lizze (18:40.666)
I.

Well, no, I mean, you can learn everything on the internet.

Shay (18:46.622)
Facts, I have to YouTube almost everything.

Lizze (18:49.389)
Yeah. And I, so when I would do my short films, I can't afford an editor. I would, I've been making short films since before I had any money. I would have $500 to my name and 482 of it's going to my short film. And the other half of it is just probably gone. I don't know where, cause that's how that math's. But, so I learned to edit in Adobe premiere pro to cut my own shorts.

Shay (18:54.846)
No.

Shay (19:01.022)
Mm -hmm.

LAUGHS

Shay (19:09.086)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, girl meth.

Shay (19:17.79)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (19:19.163)
And I know a lot of vloggers use Final Cut, which is actually probably easier, but I don't have it in me to learn a new thing. So I just, I cut in Premiere Pro and I've also like, cause I've been doing it for, I've been doing it for a few years now. I have the, you know, I almost shoot for the edit, but you know, each video is different and you get what you put into it. I think the hardest part is titling and thumb nailing.

Shay (19:37.79)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (19:44.926)
Yeah.

Honestly, isn't it? Because you want to grab people's attention within 0 .5 seconds, but you will... Yeah, but you also want to be honest and you also want... It's just... That's another type of pressure that I don't enjoy.

Lizze (19:53.467)
I don't do up with that.

Lizze (20:01.884)
You have to take the pressure off, I think, because you're never going to do anything if you're trying to be perfect at it. And no one's ever perfected something the first time they do it. Like we're not, we can't even sit up when we're born. You know what I mean? We can't even uncrunch. And look at me now. Fuck. Yeah.

Shay (20:08.254)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (20:13.342)
Yeah, I'm still working on it. I'm still working on it. So if you were to make like a short film, I assume you might be doing that now, but like if you were going to make your own short film right now in 2024, what would you do? What are the steps you would take? Like write your script, shoot it. How do you get it put on the IMDB? How do you do all those kinds of steps yourself?

Lizze (20:42.588)
Well, I'm old and tired now and I choose which steps I'm willing to take. I don't know how valuable IMDB is, to be honest with you. It's so easily manipulated by anyone who pays the yearly subscription. The last time I was working in a production for a production company, they don't even look at IMDB. They use production services or something.

Shay (20:44.158)
Okay, yes.

Shay (20:48.446)
Right.

Shay (20:58.046)
Ruh -huh.

Shay (21:05.246)
Okay.

Lizze (21:06.363)
So that doesn't matter to me. I don't put it on IMDB. Usually there's an actor, to be honest, that I work with who's like, can I put this on IMDB? And I'm like, I don't give a shit, please. Do what you must.

Shay (21:14.27)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (21:17.95)
That's really interesting. I didn't know there were, because I've been in England forever, I don't know where people look for these things. I just assumed IMDB.

Lizze (21:22.747)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (21:27.483)
No, I would say IMDb is rarely looked at.

Shay (21:32.894)
Okay, what are you looking? Where are you looking?

Lizze (21:36.059)
I'm not really, what do you mean? Looking for what? Yeah, what are we looking for?

Shay (21:37.726)
Who's looking? Where do you find everything? If you're not looking at IMDb, how do you know someone's credits or their films or what they're doing?

Lizze (21:47.963)
well, so if I'm casting something, I will look at your actor's access profile or wherever I've posted the casting. I will look at your actor's access and I don't like the first thing I see is your headshot, right? So if your headshot doesn't actually look like you, I'm not going like, and I know it doesn't look like you because I need to see video of you. Even if it's just a person saying their name,

Shay (21:51.966)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (21:59.102)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (22:16.862)
their address and like whatever, not their address, their location. I want to hear your voice and I want to see how your body moves. Because I'm not making, I'm not taking a still image, I'm taking a motion picture. So I will go to your actor's access. And I usually don't care about what your credits are because of the level of work that we are doing. And if I was going to have somebody of a higher level of work, it would be.

Shay (22:30.654)
Right.

Lizze (22:45.47)
A direct ask to them like I went out to them and ask them, but I usually I don't trust an IMDB credit, but if you have a real and the real isn't just personally made. Like if it's a body of work that is professionally done, I'll feel more confident employing you because I know you can handle yourself on set. But it always boils down to the actual audition tape for me.

Shay (22:47.198)
Right.

Shay (23:10.974)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (23:13.085)
That being said, if I were to make a short film today, I would take, I would just think like, what's the most, how do I stretch my money the most? So the first thought I have is, what do I have at my disposal? I take an inventory of the things I have and the people I have. And then I think about like, what's the story that I want to tell? And I have like a bunch of short films because sometimes you just have a really quick thing you want to say.

Shay (23:42.11)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (23:42.303)
and you don't wanna say it, it's not a movie, it really is a short. And so then I make that work given my inventory of things. And then I start calling my DPs, who's looking for a new sample? What kind of sample are you looking for? Sometimes short films for me are born because a DP hits me up and says, I wanna shoot something like this, do you have something?

Shay (23:45.63)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (24:07.455)
And if any, if it's if it's like, working with, I usually say, absolutely have something and then I do by the end of the day. Because that's.

Shay (24:12.734)
Yeah. So if people want to hire you, where would they find like you?

Lizze (24:18.27)
I'm horrible for this. I should have a website.

Shay (24:21.502)
Well, I just am like, okay, well, if they don't look on IMDB, where the hell do you go? Because in England, we use the website Spotlight, and that's the only thing you can use. It's the only way you are found connected with agents, things like that, or connected with projects. It is the one resource. So I have no clue.

Lizze (24:38.526)
Mm -hmm.

I mean, the sad truth is no one's looking for me.

Shay (24:44.478)
well, gnar.

Lizze (24:45.951)
So I'm not going to be found. I'm going to be the only way you know about me is because I've knocked on your fucking door or lit myself on fire in your front yard to get your attention. So that's where I'm at. So, you know, something I do is when I write something that I love or when I shoot something that I love, I send it out. I send it to people in my network. I send it to. So like I sold a TV show to CBS.

Shay (24:50.334)
Ha ha!

Shay (24:54.494)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (24:58.334)
Right, correct. Okay.

Shay (25:09.278)
To who?

Shay (25:15.198)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (25:15.808)
and got paid to write the pilot and never got made, but that's a win. So if I make something that I love, or if I have something that I love, I send it to the people that were all on that email thread. Hey, nice to see you. I actually just wrote this thing. I think you like, I would love to get your thoughts on it. Please let me know if you have any guidance.

Shay (25:27.102)
There you go, yeah.

Shay (25:32.67)
Mm -hmm.

And do you have any, cause you went to school not, did you go to school not for acting?

Lizze (25:41.343)
Yeah, I went to school, I got a degree in political science, legal studies. And I'm a certified parent. No, I can't spell or punctuate to save my life. I just have stories to tell.

Shay (25:45.534)
Yeah, so did that help with your writing? Okay, so you -

So you've just kind of figured it out as you go.

Lizze (25:56.511)
The annoying thing is I'll pay an editor when it matters. I'm not defensive.

Shay (25:59.486)
yeah, for sure. well, I'll do it for free, it's okay. I'm pretty good with the spell. I know, it's true. Well that's interesting, interesting. Sorry, I just had a brain fart.

Lizze (26:05.056)
See, that's what you people say. That's what you people say.

Lizze (26:15.616)
You just have to know what's cool. I just, you got to keep a running Rolodex of people that have witnessed your success and then follow up with them. That's the only way I've ever gotten things done. Like the last job offer I got to write a script was because I had shadowed this director on a TV show. I hit him up and said, I need a job. He got me working as a second AD. I write scripts all the time. I say, Hey, what do you think about this script? He reads it. Sometimes he likes it.

Shay (26:24.318)
Yeah.

Shay (26:33.438)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (26:44.16)
The last script I sent him, he liked so much, he shared with somebody at this production company, and then they have a dumpster fire horror movie that needs a rewrite. And because my script is what they wish their script was, they offered me the rewrite position.

Shay (26:55.102)
Mm -hmm.

Amazing. So what are you, what is your main focus when you write? I know you like the horror genre. Is that mostly what it is or what was even the one for CBS? Is it more funny? What do you like? Horror? Yeah. It's just a good genre. It's such a good one.

Lizze (27:09.121)
That's horror. That's horror comedy. Yeah, it's horror comedy. The script I'm writing right now is straight comedy. But that's just because another company read a horror script and they said, we're not doing anything in the horror space. Do you have anything else? I'd written a Christmas script for me and my friend Rylan to act in on like a lark. And I really liked the script.

Shay (27:19.262)
Okay.

Shay (27:30.59)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (27:34.305)
And so then I sent it to that company because they said, do you have anything that's not horror? So I sent my Christmas script and they said, do you have anything that's set in high school? I said, not yet. Give me a week. Like.

Shay (27:43.07)
Yeah, and are these full length, like 30 minute feature films, all of the above?

Lizze (27:46.208)
future.

Yeah, no, for these specifically, I like to...

I like to write a full length feature, which is, you know, 75 to 90 pages, but usually ends up at one time. And I like to do that because I like to tell a whole story. I will, if you develop a pilot for it to be good, it has to have a whole world around it, which is a lot more development time. Cause the, the dynamic of a TV show from a movie is so different.

Shay (27:59.582)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (28:22.402)
People are like, well, but Comedy Pilot's only 30 pages. It's like, right, it's 30 pages, but it's like.

You have to build a world. Like...

Shay (28:31.966)
Yeah, you still need the circumstances.

Lizze (28:34.658)
Yeah, and it's got to have legs and it's got to be a good concept and it's got to have character and it's got to have a reason and all of that is really hard to just sort of hint at in a pilot if you don't know what it all is. So I really like, I love developing pilots and I love developing shows, but in my current condition, it's like, I can't write a movie. This has to end.

Shay (28:36.862)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (28:46.878)
Yes.

Shay (28:52.286)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (29:01.278)
How many months pregnant are you?

Lizze (29:03.586)
I'm in my fifth month.

Shay (29:05.47)
Okay, so you're kinda... that's more than halfway.

Lizze (29:09.441)
Yeah, I think I'm right in the middle of halfway.

Shay (29:11.294)
You're almost there. You excited, you hype, nervous.

Lizze (29:15.906)
I think who is it Bruce Lee said if you what you speak has power over your body. So it's important to speak. Kindly.

Shay (29:22.014)
Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Lizze (29:28.578)
That's where I'm gonna leave it.

Shay (29:31.002)
Well, it's gonna be great. You're gonna be a wonderful parent. I already know it. I think you're just gonna be... You're gonna have it. You're gonna have it down. It's gonna be overwhelming. I don't have kids, so I don't know, but it's gonna be all great. You have a good support system over there with your friends and... Yeah!

Lizze (29:41.283)
It's going to be awful. I mean, awesome. Yeah.

Lizze (29:54.115)
Yeah, and I have these dumbass dogs who are going to be helpful.

Shay (29:57.918)
Exactly. They will be helpful. I'm sure they're gonna love them.

Is your husband excited that you're having a boy? Yeah. Is he working in the industry?

Lizze (30:05.635)
He's very excited. Yeah.

Yeah, so he's a director, producer, editor. And he's right now shooting his passion project film, which is pretty cool. He's like, that's another example of, you know, you just keep pushing the rock up the hill and eventually the money comes.

Shay (30:14.878)
Nice. Nice.

Shay (30:19.294)
Shay (30:25.918)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. What do you think about vlogging?

Lizze (30:27.714)
And you make it work. He won't be in the blogs. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm not going to put my baby in the blogs. I'm never even going to say on the Internet.

Shay (30:31.614)
That's fair. That's very fair.

Shay (30:37.726)
No. No, I wouldn't. Don't become that.

Lizze (30:41.282)
No.

It's I just don't think it's like the wild west for kids on the Internet and I. I don't I feel like there's enough struggles in life that. He's going to have to answer for what I say on my podcast already. He doesn't need to. Be mortified in his own right.

Shay (30:49.086)
It is, it's just not right. It ain't right.

Shay (31:01.054)
Do you like podcasting more than vlogging?

Lizze (31:05.796)
yeah.

Shay (31:07.23)
Yeah, I find it freeing, but I get scared still. Like, are you nervous that it's gonna come back at some point and be like, I said something stupid and they're gonna find this. Say again. yeah.

Lizze (31:16.228)
I would always come back. Yeah, you don't have to be afraid of it. You can rest assured. It's gonna come back.

Shay (31:25.79)
Yeah, well I say stupid shit all the time and I'm just like, that's just, I can't help it.

Lizze (31:34.627)
Neither can I.

Shay (31:35.486)
It's just word vomit. It's just coming out. I don't mean anything personal. It's just coming out.

Lizze (31:41.124)
It's easier, it gets easier, I think. The more we work on ourselves, the better we get, the easier it is to not say something super stupid. But the other part of it is you just have to sort of silence the world because some people may not get the nuance that is you and that's fine. We're not for everyone. If we're for everyone, we're for nothing.

Shay (31:44.382)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (31:59.486)
Yeah.

Shay (32:03.998)
Ooh, get that on a t -shirt.

Lizze (32:07.748)
Write that down, Icky.

Shay (32:09.15)
Write it down. Mr. Bubbs? Come on. God damn it. Ms. Bubbs. So what do you do between like, lulls in jobs? Or have you felt like even quitting this industry altogether at some point?

Lizze (32:12.196)
We're not doing shit.

Lizze (32:17.285)
Thank you.

Lizze (32:32.421)
I like I don't really have a little because I might think Always be doing something if you've got downtime you've got time to do something so I if I am Not paid to do something. I'm doing something on my own I'm writing something if I want to shoot something I'm Making the calls and figuring out who else wants to shoot something and how I can get it done

Shay (32:36.894)
always doing something.

Shay (32:42.206)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (32:58.341)
If I want to direct something, but I don't have time to write something, I'm reaching out to my writer friends and I'm saying, do you want to write something that I can direct right now? So, I hate producing in an official way, but I love producing and I'm going to frantically text you at. 9 AM Wednesday and 4 weeks from now we're on set.

Shay (33:13.374)
Yeah.

Shay (33:17.95)
Mm -hmm. So you've never thought about even quitting or just finding what my mom would say, a stable job?

Lizze (33:28.325)
Hmm. The problem is like, I'm unemployable. Like what the fuck I gonna do? Do you know? I mean outside of this space. I could teach but like I don't think they're gonna hire me.

Shay (33:33.278)
Why? Why are you unemployable?

Yeah, I know. That's the same as me.

Shay (33:46.43)
Yeah, no, I'm the same thing. I don't have any - I can't do anything else but something within this industry. I am just - I ain't qualified.

Lizze (33:52.934)
Yeah, there's the day job version of it within the industry to, like, you know, the day job dream of working in the industry is I'm an AD on a sitcom. That's.

Shay (34:03.518)
Mm -hmm. God, yeah. How fun. That would be great. I'd love that. Ugh, I miss being on set. I might move back to California because I just... Right now I'm in Iowa with my mom. Obviously, there's nothing to do here, so I miss California. Just...

Lizze (34:06.661)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Lizze (34:21.414)
Boy, mix too.

Shay (34:25.054)
This is hard, there ain't no one here.

Lizze (34:27.238)
Well, you made a podcast today.

Shay (34:28.958)
I did make a podcast. I figured this was like the one thing I could do here that I had control over. I could do myself and create something. So it's definitely a step in the right direction. It's giving me something to work on.

Lizze (34:43.078)
You could film by yourself on your phone.

Shay (34:46.462)
I know, I just got a new phone last week and the quality of that camera, I was like, my God, I'm just gonna have to shoot something myself about me because I don't have friends here either, so.

Lizze (34:57.351)
It's no, it's and it's totally doable. Like I one time and it's not no, we know one else needs to see it. Who cares? It's just the repetition. You want to be on set and make a set. Right, a short. You don't need a sound guy. It's all there's a musical track that plays over a silent film and then you sit behind your podcast equipment and you do a voiceover. Maybe it's good. Maybe it's cringy. Who cares? You did it next. Let's.

Shay (35:06.27)
Facts.

Shay (35:20.446)
next god see

Lizze (35:23.143)
You edit, I've seen stuff that you edited for school. You just gotta do it. You wanna do it, do it, who cares?

Shay (35:28.51)
I love you. You're just like, go. Like sometimes I just need you to be like, go, do it.

Lizze (35:33.223)
Yeah, do it. I was thinking about you the other day, because I remember I called you and I was like, hey, can you play an EMT in this thing? And you were like, no. And then you were on my set playing an EMT because we had to hire. I was like, what the fuck? Like.

Shay (35:48.862)
I don't remember that because this Shayla would never turn down work, so I don't know what the hell that was. well, I still wouldn't do... I wouldn't turn down work. That's hilarious, though. Yeah, I ended up being an EMT constantly. Say again.

Lizze (35:53.763)
You forced to pay you.

Lizze (36:02.542)
You might have turned it down because you had already been hired for it.

Shay (36:09.342)
yeah, actually that is why. I was like, no, I'm already going. Yeah, no, that's true. Cause I had a gig playing all police officers, EMTs, nurses, just hopping around to different TV shows and just being one of those. And it was great. It was a full -time job just wearing a officer's uniform and walking around set pretending like I knew what I was doing. It was fake it till you make it really.

Lizze (36:13.575)
Yeah.

Lizze (36:25.606)
Yeah.

Lizze (36:34.438)
Hell yeah.

works.

Shay (36:38.398)
It works, except for when they were like, can you show the talent how to use the gun? And luckily I would have YouTube and stuff, but I was like, yeah, yeah, I got it. I know, I know, fake it till you make it.

Lizze (36:44.968)
Yeah. God.

Lizze (36:51.464)
Not with the armory.

Shay (36:52.83)
Well, no, not with the armory. It was fake guns. They were fake, really bad fake guns, but you know, and it was for the extras.

Lizze (36:57.032)
I know, I know.

Lizze (37:04.808)
If I were you, I would sit down and think, what do I have? You have a bedroom, you have a phone, you have a podcast mic. Do you have a cat? Do you have a dog? You have a whole fucking movie.

Shay (37:12.222)
Yeah, yeah. I have two cats. yeah. There's a whole movie and then a cornfield out back. Like, that is potential. Yeah.

Lizze (37:22.568)
Yes, it tripods for phones are like $12 on Amazon.

Shay (37:27.902)
Mm -hmm. Wow, you just get my mind pumping. Just do it. Do you think you're gonna slow down at all once you have your child?

Lizze (37:31.88)
Just do it. Just do it.

Lizze (37:38.056)
yeah, I'm slowed right now. Yeah, I can only I used to be able to write like 1015 pages a day. Now I get 13 or 30 minutes. I used to be able to break an outline in like 2 days. I'm on week 2 of this outline and I've only been able to write as of last week.

Shay (37:39.902)
Yeah.

Shay (37:46.046)
Mm -hmm. Let's.

Shay (37:55.07)
That's very fair.

Lizze (37:58.057)
But I am, I'm still doing it. I'm okay to slip.

Shay (38:04.222)
Yeah, you just... Yeah, you just have to be gentle with yourself.

Lizze (38:08.521)
Yes, no, I really got to chase the passion. Like, I have a, I want to shoot a short film. I have a idea. I have a DP. But I don't want to produce it. So I'm waiting for my husband's producer to come back from that. I'll beg her.

Shay (38:11.038)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (38:25.374)
That's good. That's a good idea. What is, I'm trying to think, what would you say has been the biggest hurdle you've had in doing this industry? Like, what was the day where you were just like, my God, are you ever just fed up?

Lizze (38:29.896)
Yeah.

Lizze (38:49.673)
I think the biggest, so there's two things, right?

Shay (38:52.958)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (38:56.97)
Believing in yourself is hard, especially in a business where predominantly you hear no. So that's really difficult. Believe in yourself enough to scream your own name in a crowded room over and over and over is really hard. Sharing your work is really hard. And then after finding the...

Whatever it is to do that, it's finding the right person. I think the hurdle is finding the right people to scream your name out.

Shay (39:35.71)
Mm, yeah.

Lizze (39:37.226)
And then from there it's just.

Keep going. And keep going means you might have to do the same thing 500 times. But you only are done when you throw in the rag.

Shay (39:56.542)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Lizze (39:58.762)
But if you keep going, like, it's crazy. I look around and it's like, wow, I really did all this. But this wouldn't have come without everything prior that sucked, right? Dumpster diving in Hollywood for props, that sucked. Do not jump in a dumpster on Hollywood Boulevard. It's a bummer. Don't do it.

Shay (40:04.062)
Yeah.

Shay (40:11.07)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Shay (40:20.03)
Don't do it. There's probably needles in there. Yeah.

Lizze (40:27.53)
But you know, if I hadn't made those four shitty movies, I never would have been pressured to write so many scripts. If I hadn't wanted to act, I wouldn't have written a script for myself to act in. I wouldn't have reached out to producers to make the script. I wouldn't have learned how to make a movie. I learned how to make a bad movie so that I could so that I could learn how to make a good movie. Like. I wouldn't.

Shay (40:41.886)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (40:46.942)
Yeah.

Shay (40:52.478)
Yeah, it's all about failing, really.

Lizze (40:55.754)
Yeah, just keep feeling up.

Shay (40:57.982)
Yeah, just keep it going. Keep the tally going.

Lizze (40:59.883)
Yeah. And eventually you decide like, what's worth my time. Probably not that. So I'm going to invest in this so that two years from now, I'm not still doing that. And you learn that as you go. So just, you got to just keep going. That's the only option you have. Or you can be a teacher. Unless you.

Shay (41:05.31)
No.

Shay (41:11.966)
Mm -hmm. Yep.

Shay (41:23.358)
thought about it and I just no no no no no no no

Lizze (41:29.131)
You have to make a short film in a quorum filled with your cats first and then you can see. Yeah.

Shay (41:31.614)
Yeah, yeah, then I'll be ready. other question, you're sober in this industry, yeah? Yeah, how long have you been sober for?

Lizze (41:38.795)
Mm -hmm.

I've been, I haven't had alcohol in 11 years.

Shay (41:45.822)
shit.

Lizze (41:47.787)
And I've been totally sober for five years.

Shay (41:52.158)
Yeah, wow. Okay, because I remember you back then, obviously, like just, I don't know, just starting or getting, I don't know. But I remember the progress into sobriety and I'm so proud of you. Yeah, has it been difficult? Like do you, I mean, what I struggled with the last time I was in a show is all the cast wants to go drink at the pub or, you know.

Lizze (42:08.971)
Thank you.

Shay (42:19.902)
It's a very much a social thing when you're in this job, any job. Do you still struggle with it or are you just unbothered?

Lizze (42:29.9)
I don't struggle with, like at present, I'm not like, I would love to have alcohol. It's not hard for me to turn a drink down. I think what's harder is working on your mental health daily so that your demons don't say you need to numb out. I think life is actually easier, sober. And I think a lot of people,

Shay (42:37.79)
Yeah.

Shay (42:51.422)
Yeah, yeah.

Lizze (42:58.892)
don't get the opportunity to experience that because one of the lies that we tell ourselves is alcohol helps us get through this awkward encounter, but it really doesn't. And being able to have self -esteem and pride in my behavior makes it easier for me to work, makes me a better employee.

Shay (43:07.998)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Lizze (43:27.372)
makes me braver, makes me trust myself more, makes it easier for me to stand in a crowded room and scream my own name. So all of these things are easier with sobriety. And all it cost is like feeling better about myself. So I'm like, okay. Yeah.

Shay (43:34.942)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (43:39.454)
Wow. That's good.

Shay (43:44.802)
Yeah. Wow, jeez. And not going and spending your money on alcohol. I still struggle. I have, I'll have a drink, you know, on the 4th of July or something. And I, every time I'm like, ugh, I just hate it. So I've been exiting out as, as well as I can. I mean,

Lizze (43:52.491)
Yeah. Yeah.

Shay (44:12.19)
It'll be like once on a holiday and I hate it. And, but I do still smoke the devil's lettuce on the reg. I would love to not, but I'm just not ready. I'm not ready. And that's like one of the things that I learned with my eating disorder and other things is you kind of just have to be ready in your own head. Like I can't force it.

Lizze (44:15.052)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (44:25.612)
Hehehehe

Shay (44:41.822)
You know, I'm not ready, I'm just not. But at the same time, you could say you're never ready for anything. So I don't know. I don't know.

Lizze (44:49.837)
I mean, is it serving you or are you serving it?

Shay (44:53.694)
probably a good bit of both right now. Just because it's one of those things when you're down low, you're just kind of feeding the lower things on top of it, making it worse for yourself. That's where we're at right now.

Lizze (45:09.324)
Yeah, well, you decide where you put your energy. If you want to feed the lower things, that's your decision. But I did get hypnotized to quit smoking cigarettes.

Shay (45:11.774)
No.

Shay (45:15.262)
We're working on it, we're working on it.

Shay (45:20.542)
I was just gonna ask you because... Yeah.

Lizze (45:22.732)
You used to buy me packs of cigarettes when I was down and out. I remember I was working as a sales girl and I called you and was like, I'm gonna need you to buy me a pack of American Spirit Blues. And we're gonna have to drive them to the West side right now and I cannot pay you back.

Shay (45:29.47)
Mm -hmm.

Shay (45:33.758)
And I was like, yes ma 'am.

Lizze (45:35.788)
I was like, thank you. Thank God for you.

Shay (45:37.214)
And yeah, I think it was because I was going already to Christian Johnston's who lived in West Hollywood. So it worked out. But then I started smoking the American blues. I was like, I wonder if these are nice. And I was like, they are.

Lizze (45:53.164)
My dumbass read the packaging, I was like, they're non addictive. And then I showed it to someone and they were like, no, that's no additives.

Shay (45:56.478)
great.

Shay (46:00.83)
Ha ha ha!

Lizze (46:01.804)
And I was like, well, that explains why I'm so fucking addicted.

Shay (46:04.99)
I have recently, like in England, it is so socially acceptable to smoke everywhere, anywhere, all the time. And so it was really a bigger thing over there for me. And now that I've come back, I've tried to quit and it's horrible. And I've tried the little vapes and I hate them. And so we're slowly going out and I haven't had one a long time, but God, I dream of them.

Lizze (46:23.788)
Mm -hmm.

Lizze (46:32.556)
I mean, the one, I don't know that I was ever fully hypnotized because I was always conscious and I was like, I can hear you saying nasty things to me right now, but I'm playing along because I'm a codependent loser. And, but one of the things that really stuck with me is the guy was like, are you afraid to die from smoking? And I was like, yeah. He was like, well, you know that the probability is you will get sick and die from smoking. And I go, yeah. And he goes, if you walk into a room and a baby's playing with a gun.

Shay (46:37.726)
huh.

Lizze (47:02.572)
Are you going to take the gun away from the baby because there's a high probability of them pulling the trigger and hurting themselves? And I was like, absolutely. He's like, are you going to do that right now? Or are you going to do that eventually? And I was like, well, I'm going to obviously remove the gun from the baby's hand immediately. He's like, okay. So as a person who's afraid of dying from smoking, you're going to go give money to cigarettes to kill you.

Shay (47:27.998)
Yeah.

Lizze (47:28.332)
and eventually worry about it, even though it's the same as the analogy of a baby holding a gun. And I was like, that's a really strong point, Carrie Heiner. And I'm definitely going to think about it differently going forward.

But that's how I see everything now, right? Like some bitch in a SoulCycle class screamed at me, do it for yourself, do it for who you wanna be tomorrow. And so that's why even when I feel like shit, I'm like, well, I'm gonna do 30 minutes of my writing today for the writer I wanna be tomorrow. I'm gonna my fucking mountain of laundry for the bitch I wanna be tomorrow who doesn't have to do that. Because I deserve that laundry folded.

Shay (47:52.446)
Ew.

Shay (48:00.99)
Yeah.

Shay (48:07.774)
Yeah.

Shay (48:11.39)
Yes.

Lizze (48:12.844)
So that's how I feel about feeding the lower beast. You know what I mean? Like if I'm gonna be spending money and time is money on something, it better be in my highest interest. Cause if it's not, I can't fucking afford it.

Shay (48:19.998)
Yes.

Shay (48:26.366)
These are facts.

Lizze (48:27.564)
Yeah. Make your fucking cornfield cat movie, dude. It doesn't make any sense. Christopher Nolan, that shit. How great would that be? Christopher Nolan, give me a memento with cats in the cornfield. Please. Please. I beg you. Give it to me.

Shay (48:29.278)
sorry.

I'm gonna.

Shay (48:35.838)
Christopher.

Shay (48:42.558)
I know you're just beggin' for it.

Shay (48:47.486)
I will! I will! I'm gonna do it and then I'm gonna tag you as something. A special thank you.

Lizze (48:55.052)
Okay, put me on my IMDB.

Shay (48:59.038)
Well now I know no one reads it.

Lizze (49:02.284)
No, I'm sure people read it. Otherwise, why would everyone care so much about it? But I'm not reading it.

Shay (49:08.702)
one second. It froze. Give me one second.

I see you. Say something. It's there.

Lizze (49:20.46)
Hello?

Okay, do you wanna save this really quickly?

Shay (49:26.782)
Say again.

Lizze (49:27.916)
Do you want to just save this really quickly and come back? Okay.

Shay (49:31.374)
Yeah. Let me see.